Leading with VIBE: Unlocking Your Leadership Potential with Krissy Martinez

Carolyn: Hello, evolved listeners and watchers. We’re on a video now. Welcome to another episode of the podcast. Today’s guest is coming to us from the West coast in sunny California. Welcome Chrissy Martinez.

Kristin: Hi, thank you, Carolyn. Thank you so much for inviting me and having me on your podcast.

Carolyn: Yeah. I’m, I’m really excited to have you on today cause I feel like we have similar a similar passion, similar motivation. We’ve kind of come at it from different angles. I always joke that I was a wannabe psychologist in a business environment and you’ve kind of done the opposite way, haven’t you?

Kristin: I have, I, I’ve, I’ve decided that I want to take the therapy room into our corporate organizations, especially healthcare organizations. But yeah,

Carolyn: Yeah. And why was that? Like, why did you, I mean, you had a successful psychotherapy practice and what inspired you or what drove you to get into, you know, this big experiment in the corporate world?

Kristin: I think first was my own experience and working in other organizations and realizing how Their systems and what they were doing impacted me as a person more than just me as an employee. And secondly, seeing my own organization and knowing and recognizing the things that we do that also impact our employees, not just on their, on a professional level, but on their own personal level and how really those two things interact with each other.

Carolyn: Right. And so you, you had like a big or have a big sort of group of psychotherapists that you work with, correct?

Kristin: I do. 

Carolyn: Yeah. 

So really like thrust into

a leadership role, not just practicing with the clients, but also leading. And what were some of the, what were some of the biggest challenges or things that were hard to do, but easy to talk about from a leadership perspective?

Kristin: I think hard to do is, I talk a lot about 

boundaries. And boundaries, I say, are multi directional. Where you can place a boundary, but you also have to maintain it. You have to make sure you follow through on, on what the boundary is, but also the boundaries that are coming at you. You have to make… And decide like, is this something that I am okay with, something that I’m not okay with, and that sounds easy to say and talk about, but as anybody who’s ever told somebody no, you know,

it’s really not that easy to deal with the aftermath of saying no.

Carolyn: So I’m curious why it’s harder to have boundaries live within boundaries as a leader than it is as like a human being or a psychotherapist.

Kristin: I think it comes down to individuals, but as a leader, The same relationship patterns that you have outside of work are triggered inside of work.

So those same patterns start to emerge. And if you’re codependent outside of work, you’re going to be codependent as a leader at work. So you’re going to be far more likely to be, be walked on, try and solve other people’s problems, try to be everything to everyone, which It’s like leadership death.

I mean, you’ll dig your own grave doing that.

Carolyn: So can we define what codependent means? Because we’re, we’re going to be out of the psychotherapy office right now in the business world. That’s not a term that gets thrown around. What does codependent mean in a like business perspective? Right. Right.

Kristin: For me, I always describe codependency as if you’re sacrificing yourself, your health, wealth, well being for the good or what you think is the good of somebody else, you’re most likely in a codependent relationship.

Carolyn: Yeah.

Kristin: So it’s, although it’s nice to sacrifice, but if you feel like you have to sacrifice in order to keep something or somebody happy or in your life, that’s codependency.

Carolyn: Right. So it was like codependent with the organization as opposed to a human. 

Like when I think of codependency, I think of like two people in a relationship. And when you just talked about some of those behaviors that can be demonstrated when we’re codependent at work, I almost hear like codependent with an organization or with more than one person.

Kristin: Well, I would say that if you have a pattern of codependency, you are going to exhibit it in every relationship.

So if you’re, let’s say, at work, you’re automatically thrust into these relationships. You’re going to be codependent in all of them, just like you would be outside of work. So it could be multiple relationships or with one relationship.

Like, yeah, you could. I envisioned the organization itself as one relationship, and I could sacrifice everything for this organization and the relationship that it stands for internally for me.

Carolyn: right, right. So codependency boundaries. One big thing I’m hearing you say is sort of who you are at home is who you are at work. So, I

mean, I don’t know about you, but when I do workshops, I often get the question. Well, am I talking about myself at home or at work? I’m like, is there really a difference? So, I think there’s an

interesting insight there, right. For people to

understand. 

Kristin: we’d like there to be a difference and sure, okay, at work I might not talk about certain subjects and I might keep that on the side, but the behavioral patterns cannot be avoided. Like, the person you are at home and the things you do at home and the patterns you have there are always the same as at work.

Sure, you might not be talking about religion and politics at work, but you are definitely the same person whether you think you are or not.

Carolyn: right. 

Right. Now I know that you based or you created a program, I believe it was in 19 or 19, well, that was a while ago. Just show my age. In 2019. And it’s it’s based on, it’s called the Core Leadership Vibe Program. Did I get that name correct?

Kristin: Yeah, I work with leaders on creating their, their vibe. So I help them become stable leaders through establishing their values, identity, boundaries, and experience, which 

Carolyn: That’s the acronym for V. I. B. E,

Kristin: Yes, that’s the 

Carolyn: if you missed that, yeah.

Kristin: Which is their actual experience or just the existential, like meaning of their experience. So, yeah.

Carolyn: Yeah, now I love a word that you just said there, stable. You know, because you’re a psychotherapist you and I both know the importance of safety and consistency. So I love that word stable and how do you like, how do you introduce that concept of concept of stability or safety and consistency when you bring this work into leaders?

Kristin: When I’m thinking about stability and I talk to leaders, I tell them it’s,, it’s an illusion. So although people are viewing stability, your own internal process is managing the moving ground. So you’re trying to move and walk on pieces that are moving at all times, but the illusion that you’re giving is stability.

And that’s created through having a solid foundation and structure to how you do anything. So vibe is how we create that foundation and structure so that although things around you are always moving, like in every organization that has ever existed, you are able to provide that stable environment for your team.

So

Carolyn: Cool.

Kristin: for leaders, you really have to become the stability and the safety for the team. Sometimes you have to face your own, your own problems, your own demons, as they say.

Carolyn: Yeah. Well, sometimes I, I’m going to say, I will go out and say it. If you want to be a really good leader, you have to face them at least a little bit.

Kristin: Most days.

Carolyn: Yeah. Yeah. When you said stability, I like was picturing. Jumping from ice, like a little floaty ice, a little ice patch and kind of like jumping from ice patch to ice patch.

I’m sure there’s a more technical term. And, and so, you know, that’s in itself pretty kind of precarious because you can fall into the water, it could get warmer and so the ice can melt. And I think that’s a good analogy for the uncertainty and unpredictability that leaders and organizations face, like kind of having that agility to jump onto another floaty.

Kristin: Yeah. And being, being able to keep yourself in a calm enough state where you can see the next step, because sometimes stability is you see the longterm, but. In that long term, you also have to be able to see right in front of you and, okay, I’m on this ice patch. I have to get to that, that one, you know, before we can get to the large green space off in the distance.

Carolyn: Wow. And so when, when organizations call you up and say, Hey, Chrissy, we need you to come in. We need your company, your company to come in. What kind of problems are they trying to solve? How do they articulate it to you?

Kristin: It is a wide spectrum of problems from how do we design a leadership program that helps new leaders? Stop relying on us so much. So there’s definitely a lot of organizational organizations struggling with staff who don’t feel independent enough to make decisions. And that’s definitely a deep rooted systemic problem because that’s probably because they don’t feel like they have the safety to make those decisions.

So it becomes much more than what, well. Sure, we could make that program, but why are they coming, why are they having that problem in the first place? Like usually when you’re a leader, you, you assume that you have some decision making capacity.

Carolyn: Right.

Kristin: Another area that we get people requesting help is how do, how do you take, we, we, we see the systemic problem.

With staff with toxic culture on a team, but we can’t get our Upper level or the next level up to recognize it as a problem.

So a lot of that comes in Well, how do we package the problem? How do you work within the system because you can’t act like an outsider to a system, right? If you think about your body if you become the virus the body is gonna fight the virus So you don’t want to come in as a foreign entity telling it what that there’s something wrong because it’s gonna fight you off So it’s about how do you restructure this within the system to make sure that it gets?

Into the virus itself, you know, like how do you package this as a vaccine?

Carolyn: Oh, the inner student in me is excited to hear more about that. So can you give us an example of how not to be a virus or like just to bring that example to life, like how you go in and work with an organization to help them identify that problem?

Kristin: So usually this what when this is happening, it’s a new I’ll call them and like a director level they’re coming in and they’re like, oh my god There are problems and we need to talk about the problems. And I’m like, that’s great. You’ve been here. How long and How are they gonna look at you so Learn I we talked about learning the language

of the system.

How did they see the problem? How can you start to slowly communicate what the problem is in the language that the system is speaking?

So is it healthcare lingo? Is it like, what, what are they focused on client care? And this is not a client care issue. How, how is this problem a client care issue then?

And how can you get the system that’s focused on client care to hear this staff problem? You have to make it that it’s a client care issue. Well, this staff problem, it really is a client care issue, but you need to be able to communicate how it’s a client care issue in order for the system to even give it some attention.

Carolyn: Hmm.

Kristin: a lot of it’s around how do we package this problem? And really, you’re seeing the problem, but you got to get really detailed about how does this, this really affect the goals of the organization.

Carolyn: So why do Leaders, companies need to call in people like you and I to help them unpack and like fix what they already know is broken,

Kristin: Blind spots. I think when you’re going through it, it’s a whole lot harder to see what the actual problem is. And sometimes you think you’re being really introspective as a self or as an organization, when in reality, you’re missing something

because you’re not viewing it from an outsider’s perspective.

You’re, you’re seeing it as somebody who is too closely tied to the emotionally tied, I think, to the, to the actual problem.

Carolyn: So can you put your psychotherapy hat on for a second?

Kristin: All right.

Carolyn: And I know that your work really focuses on helping people to see who they are and then helping them to understand how others see them. How, how did these blind spots, like, how do we get through these blind spots because it’s not a matter of if they exist, the best leaders out there have these, these spots that they can’t see, and that they can’t just sort of push through. So what’s going on? That’s what I want to know. What is going on for us when this happens, when these blind spots get in our way from a psychotherapy lens.

Kristin: Yeah. Well, first, I think a lot of people think it’s a linear process. It’s like, I’m going to go from not knowing, to knowing. Versus, this is really a circular process of knowing, and then unknowing, and then re knowing,

and then re knowing some more.

So, it’s this process of, I see myself as I am, or getting to that point where you can see yourself as you believe yourself to be, and then.

How do I reconcile the fact that these other people see me in different ways? And how do I bridge that gap? That gap either has to be bridged in changing parts of who I am and how I behave to fit the mold of how other people are seeing me more consistently, or from convincing other people that I really am who I say that I am and doing that over and over until we have a really consistent congruent identity.

And it’s just a recursive process. It’s just over and over and over again. And I think sometimes leaders think there’s an end point, but no, unfortunately this is just an ongoing process.

Carolyn: because like, I love how you said that it’s circular because just when we think we’ve got it figured out, there’s going to be some other dynamic in the environment that’s going to change it a little bit.

Kristin: Yep.

Carolyn: Wow.

Kristin: Always.

Carolyn: and so vibe helps address that, like, you know, the values, identity. Can you tell us a little bit more about how those four elements of vibe help that process that you just described?

Kristin: Well, I would say that problem solving leadership, which I think is really advanced problem solving, it has to come from the bottom up. It’s foundational. You have to have the structures in place in order to be able to even Climb the, to the building, right? So vibe is really values. How is, how are you going to do this?

Like, how am I going to deliver whatever package I have in a way that’s consistent with who I am? Identity is my flaws. It’s that process of introspection, which is also always changing. I don’t believe anybody’s like completely stagnant, right? We’re always changing. So… Identity, who I am, how do I relate, how do I, what are the areas I don’t relate to people, where are my flaws and then boundaries is managing that multi directional.

Relationship of what’s okay and what’s not okay to enter your space and what are the consequences when people violate those boundaries and how do, are we going to deal with the boundaries of other people? So if somebody puts a boundary on me that I’m not okay with, how am I going to deal with that?

If I am going to comply, how am I going to deal with that? And then experiences are the stories we tell ourselves.

It’s our, it’s our story, it’s our history, it’s where we, it’s the story of where we’ve come from and from that point where we’re going. So, and those things are having those form the foundation of how you make decisions.

From there, you start looking at, okay, well, what’s the, this problem with staff, the staff member? Okay, well, what do your values say? How would you normally do this? What are your flaws that might contribute to this situation? What are the things that you’re good at that can contribute to this situation? Do you have any boundaries?

Is this person trying to set boundaries with you? And then what does your experience tell you?

Carolyn: Wow. And, and so, is there like a breakthrough or an aha that you find people have on this journey, like when they started with you and something that really lands for them and it’s like, Oh, okay, now I get it.

Kristin: I think a big part is the realizing that there is no final destination.

Carolyn: Hmm.

Kristin: This is that this is a process and if you don’t like this process, then you will not like you, you will not like leadership

Carolyn: Right.

Kristin: and that a lot of this growth, you have to learning to love the process of growing, really growing yourself as a person and that also the realization that who I am is one of the biggest indicators of what happens in the workplace.

Carolyn: I love what you said there. Learning to love the process. It’s hard to love the process right now, isn’t it?

Kristin: It is,

Carolyn: There’s a lot going on for people.

Kristin: there is, in therapy we talk about process versus content. So you always have the details of anything going on, the drama, the words being said, but we always want to look at what’s the process, what’s the underlying root of it, what’s the map, what’s it telling us, what’s the pattern telling us. That the content doesn’t matter so much, but it’s really about, well, how are, how, what does the movement look like and how, how are people progressing through it?

Carolyn: And I’m guessing, so I’m going to make a hypothesis, but is age and experience directly related to how much somebody can immerse themselves in the process and love the process or are they independent?

Kristin: I haven’t noticed a significant age difference. I think there’s more initial openness to the process with younger. Generations than older generations and that could just be because They’re not looking also the older you are the less you are looking to grow in your career Professionally or even really in life, right?

Like you’re entering a new developmental phase So yeah less interested in growth overall probably

Carolyn: Yeah. I mean, I know I hear lots of banter about generational differences. And in my experience, something similar to yours, although from a different lens, is at the end of the day, people just want to be seen and heard. They really want to know who they are deep down. It’s just how much experience do we have that have, have made us be more rigid and the older you are, the more experience or the more sort of garbage you have around you that kind of gets you stuck.

Kristin: Yeah, and it’s really really looking to Wisdom of older generations who oftentimes we ignore them. Like, ah, you’re jaded, you’re skeptic. You’re really, we have, we often have to also listen to the wisdom that they have on, Hey, like you’re going to get burned if you do that.

And we have to remember, like, it’s because they’ve been burned, like they have, and, and, and also how do we integrate the experiences of other people into our own experience?

And how does that inform? we move forward through a process.

Carolyn: So when you think of some of the most empowering functional teams or cultures that you’ve worked with in, what How do they use Vibe? How are they, like, integrating it into who they are as an organization?

Kristin: Organizations that have been really successful with it really look to empower individuals to form independent relationships with their teams, because from the top down, those relationships are being established. So that relational What you do matters. What I do matters. That sentiment being present has seems to be where the most welfaring organizations lie.

Just everybody is in this process of let’s get better. Let’s do better. Let’s use this information.

Carolyn: What percentage of organizations? Maybe that’s not a fair question to ask, but is that happening in more than 50 percent of your,

of the organizations? No? Do you have, do you have hope that we’ll get there?

Kristin: one day,

Carolyn: Yeah.

I’m with you.

Kristin: happens is that the larger they become, like the larger any organization becomes. The more difficult to remain relational, it is like at some point, it seems like organizations get trapped by spreadsheets and numbers and forget that they’re actually people involved and that the most important thing in people’s lives is not the organization.

And the more that we look for feedback. Internally inside of our, our organizations, the more we’re going to create these very top heavy systems that topple under stress. I mean, health care is the prime example when came under stress. Like, we’ve seen it topple and we have not seen a recovery for health care workers.

They are burnt out and turning over at rates higher than we saw during the pandemic.

Carolyn: Yeah. Yeah.

Kristin: We have to look, I think, for to create these feedback loops that are not just internal. It’s not just numbers. It’s employees. Are they happy? Do they feel like they’re connected with their families? Are they able to engage in, you know, their, the groups that they’re involved in, in their religious organizations?

Are they participating in meaningful work? Are they able to do ethical work? Things that they’re passionate about, or are they being asked to do things that are beyond their scope, or… So, I think it, it, it’s… It’s loaded.

Carolyn: It is. It is. And, you know, when you’ve got these again, different generational expectations are a part of it. Our own awareness. You know, once you make it to a certain level in the organization, there’s some power and privilege that comes with that. And in my experience, it takes a very unique individual to want to And courageous individual to want to unpack that and learn more about themselves, even when they are holding all of this power and privilege. your experience been with that?

Kristin: Yeah, it takes a lot to want to rock the boat, because, like you said, power and privilege also feels like stability. Okay, well now I’m a part of the group, and the ground is not moving. And that’s nice, but… The ground should be moving like it really, if we’re making change, well, the ground should be moving.

We should be walking. And if we’re feeling like that calm sense of like, it’s all good. I don’t know. I questioned that. I would, it is, and it’s a difficult place to, to get people to be more open to ideas because they’re very happy in that. In that place of stability and, and the stability and the shield that the organization has provided them

Carolyn: Well, and yes, and stability is going to look a lot different when you are in the upper echelons of management because you know, more information, we’re back to, you know, knowledge being power. And I think this shows up, especially when we hear of certain back to work mandates. You know, veiled in the guise of, well, it’s collaboration and is it really collaboration or is it?

I can’t see you. I’m used to being able to see you. I don’t know how to use power any other way than to tell people what to do. And then the divide between employees and employer or employees and like senior management just. continues to widen.

Kristin: the transparency. I think that’s where transparency comes into play. And that if you don’t have transparency from top down, you’ll run into more of these power struggles and people attempting to protect their own power because there’s no transparency from the top down. I know lots of organizations who are calling people back to work because revenue is at an all time low and that’s what they think is the problem but like you said it’s shielded in collaboration versus hey everybody you’re all at risk because they’re afraid that saying that will cause everybody to look for another job versus If you have a transparent organization and you’re like, revenues are at an all time low and you’ve built those relationships, it’s a call into in, right?

And that’s what the hope is, is that because you’ve built the relationships, everybody tries to build revenue and build creative sources of revenue versus just come into the office so we can make sure that you’re doing your job.

Carolyn: I love what you just said there about being at risk because that is like things, when things are good, everyone seems to be okay. Wow. And that’s scary to admit things are at risk.

Kristin: I mean, for organizations that are employing, I think, especially the larger, the organization, what do you do when half of your people decide to turn over because they’re feeling, Oh, it’s not stable, which unfortunately the healthcare organizations are there, they’re in 50 percent turnover all the time.

But yeah, like, what do you do? How do you, how do you manage struggling revenues? Then you lose frontline service providers. Well, what are you going to do go under? So that fear causes you to create, I think the fear causes that shield to be created in the first place.

So just like you mentioned generations who, because of their experience have grown more rigid, it’s.

Because of that trauma that they begin to create walls. It’s protection. Well, we have to protect this. How do we protect it? Well, create the wall. Don’t let people really know what’s going on.

Carolyn: Well, you opened the T word. You opened the door there, Chris. Chris, yeah, I’m going in. So, I know, you know, I wrote a book about the path to trauma informed leadership. Do you talk about, and it’s a heavy word, I get that. It’s a word that’s misunderstood and From what I’m hearing from talking to different people, the word trauma is sort of like, maybe misunderstood isn’t the right word, but defined differently, even in the world of, of psychology, right?

There, there isn’t one set agreement one set definition that everybody agrees upon.

Kristin: Yeah, they’re, they’re usually I When we have new therapists coming in and they’re like, well, I asked him if I had trauma and I was like, great. Well, did you ask them what they think trauma is?

They’re like, no, because I thought they would just know. And I’m like, no, well, they, most people consider it like a huge, massive life event.

And even some life

Carolyn: Yep.

Kristin: events, people don’t consider it as trauma. Whereas if you told me I’d be like, yes, massive trauma, but others would be like It’s life. My mom died when I was eight and then my dad had worked two jobs and like that’s trauma They’re like that’s just life

Carolyn: Hello. That was me for 48 years. And And so what you’re saying, let’s so let’s kind of bring this around is there is an opportunity for us to learn about what trauma is and is not for our own self awareness, not to take out into the world and to get counseling in our workplaces. So can you tell me a little bit about. I, I, I know you don’t have a program per se that, well, at least I don’t think you do, about trauma informed leadership, but I’m going to guess that all of your work does come come through the lens of being trauma informed. Fair enough to say?

Kristin: Yeah, well, I often get said well, you’re trying to make us therapists and I’m like no Trust me. You don’t have the qualifications to be a therapist What I’m asking you what we have to recognize is that the people around us are humans And we all have experiences, whether or not we think it’s trauma or not, but gaining the understanding for ourselves of the experiences that we have and how that impacts us is part of our identity.

And in order for us to create. healthy boundaries, how, you know, use our values in a healthy way. We have to be able to identify how trauma has impacted us and how we’re trying to keep ourselves safe, how we’re creating boundaries, shields, all of that. So it’s all that foundational information on how do you even create the infrastructure?

Well, part of that is our boundaries are, are definitely a part of trauma. And if we’ve had trauma, our boundaries, Go one of two ways. Yeah. They’re either none or way too rigid.

Carolyn: Yeah. so do you talk about trauma? Like when you kind of start your programs that do you like dig in a big T, little T? Again, I know not everybody likes that. I find it’s very, very helpful for the average person not in psychology. But like, do you, do you teach people about what the word means and what it doesn’t mean?

Kristin: Well, when we go through and talk about identity, we do talk about different stories and experiences that have got us to where we’re at. And I think that those stories we have to look at in how they impact our vision of ourselves and also the vision that other people have of us. And in what way is, is that trauma or experiencing experience impacting us?

So we do talk about trauma, but not necessarily in an educational way, more of in an experiential way.

Carolyn: Right. So to sort of reflect on your own, in your own way. Yeah, I didn’t even know what the word meant at all. In fact, when the pandemic started, I kept saying to people, Oh, this isn’t my first pandemic. This isn’t my first pandemic. I’ve never been through a pandemic. I wasn’t here in the 1900s. So it was interesting how I. And it’s clearly obvious, anyone who knows me and my history, like there was, there was trauma. I just, I thought it was this big, massive, huge event that left you, you, know, in the ER somewhere. Or, you know, it just, it, to me, it was just this big, this big, big, huge thing. So I think it really, truly is an important aspect to creating the workplaces moving forward.

Not the only one, but I think it is definitely important.

Kristin: Yeah, absolutely. It’s a creating more inclusive

Carolyn: Yeah.

Kristin: space as well.

Carolyn: Now, can we talk before we wrap up? I’d love to talk a little bit about burnout because I know if you’re working in the healthcare industry as much as you are you’re having to deal with a lot of burnouts. It’s a reality. And how does vibe help with burnout? Yep.

Kristin: Well, I think it helps if I’m just. Frontline staff. One, it’s going to help me know where my boundaries are and when I’m going to exit something that’s not healthy for 

Carolyn: Right. I’m. 

Kristin: as a leader, it’s going to help me create, if I’m able to read that on myself, it helps me read my team members. And if I’m functioning from that relational authentic place, people are going to engage more.

I’m going to have more information. I’m going to be able to make more decisions that are That are consistent with who I am and with who the team is within the organization. So you’re balancing your own vibe with, with other people’s within the organization and being able to do that in a relational way, it helps prevent burnout.

It’s not going to eliminate it because systems are systems and we don’t always have the power to make that kind of change. But I, I, I believe that if one leader does it, it spreads. So, The more that you do it, the more your organization, your, more people in your organization will start to do it because they see that it’s effective and Eventually the organization can see a shift.

So and then that’s burnout and turn out of it over

Carolyn: Yeah. Well, then you have people like, yeah, like looking after themselves a little bit, a little bit earlier. I’m curious. Did you have the acronym, like, did you have the words first for vibe or did you like have vibe and then work the words in? Cause it’s cool. Like, it’s like, it’s my vibe. Just when you were saying that, I was like, Oh yeah, there’s like a real cool element

to that. 

Kristin: no, I had the words first

Carolyn: Okay. And then it just like fell into vibe. It was

meant to be. 

Kristin: I was like what kind of words can I come up with here 

And it so happened that that was what that was it. Like, I’m pretty sure that was the only word that made any kind of sense.

Carolyn: Well, I think it’s I think it’s awesome. No, I think, I think what you’re setting up, Chrissy with psychotherapists and working with large corporations, I really think it’s a way of the future. And I hope to see more and more organizations. Do that. Is there like a certain aspect of your work?

I know we talked at one point about leadership wellness where so I’m kind of asking you to look a little bit into your crystal ball, and I know it’s not, you know, you’re just kind of going to create an insight based on your experience. What what do you see happening in really high functioning, healthy organizations from a leadership wellness perspective in the next 5 to 10 years?

Kristin: I think we’ve already seen some of them start to take the external parts of employees, like, as in the parts of them that are not involved in the organization and prioritize them above the organization. So what we’ve seen is. Some organizations attempting to bring in house wellness. So not just wellness programs, but on site wellness, doctors, therapists, people who are inside the organization or contracted with the organization to provide that for staff during work hours.

So I think we’ll see more and more organizations, I think, especially post pandemic, especially ones that catch on very quickly to things. Start to push the employee as an individual and support the things that they love and care about and are important to them before the needs of the organization.

Carolyn: Yeah. Yeah. And, and I mean the numbers, I don’t have them on the top of my fingertips, but you know, the amount of money that’s invested into recruiting and retention and recruiting and retention is astronomical. And so when I hear people say, Oh, we can’t afford that. I’m like, well, can you afford the turnover that you’ve got?

Kristin: I don’t think organize, sometimes organizations don’t realize the impact, the financial impact of turnover.

You know, not just like the initial pay out that they have to do when somebody leaves, but the hiring process, the, the people required to do the recruiting, the training, the amount of time it takes for somebody to start performing at the same level that the person who just left was performing at

it’s, it’s, it’s astronomical.

Carolyn: It really is. It really is. there anything else, Chrissy? All this great work that you do and this, you know, organization that you are really, I think, shepherding this new way of being in organizations. Is there anything that we haven’t talked about that you wanted to bring into the conversation?

Kristin: Well, I just like talking.

Carolyn: Like, is there a topic that we glossed over that you’d like to circle back? But you know, when I think of the people who listen to this, the show, they’re, they’re middle to upper level managers really trying to do their best every day, trying to avoid burnout and probably feeling pulled in a lot of different directions.

Kristin: Oh, I think it’s somebody who’s been in that kind of position is to know that the experience of feeling like everything’s moving all the time is normal. And it’s not because you’re doing something wrong or something’s wrong with you, but it’s the nature of the position. It’s the nature of leadership to be constantly in movement.

And sometimes it feels like there’s no rest. Like you’re always dealing with something. And I think it’s important to have a clear idea and knowledge of who you are so that you can always come back to yourself. There’s that, I’m here and I’m stable and my relationships that I have are stable. And that’s what allows me to navigate this ground that’s always moving.

Exactly.

Carolyn: but just knowing where we can get it and holding on to that. Kind of like a tree in the middle of a windstorm.

Kristin: Yes, always. I always tell people, if every system in your life is out of whack, you’re going to have a mental health, that’s mental health crisis. But as long as you can hold on to at least one of those systems being okay, being functional, you can usually get through anything.

Carolyn: Right. Right. Whew. Well, Chrissy, I’m very grateful. I don’t even remember how we connected, if I’m being honest. I don’t, I don’t know if it

Kristin: LinkedIn somehow.

Nobody knows you on LinkedIn.

Carolyn: Yeah. Now I like to end off all of these conversations by asking three questions

from my evolved framework. Are you, are you game to go there?

Kristin: I’m ready.

Carolyn: All right. So the first question is about self awareness and I’m just going to invite you to share. Something you’re comfortable sharing about a time where you learned pretty hard, something about yourself that really elevated your self awareness to a new level.

Kristin: It actually happened recently, and… It was, I have, I know myself really well and I know my personality and when there’s a problem that I think should not be, I tend to react poorly. Like I get angry. That’s my initial response is anger. And so I built these systems where I take. What I’m feeling to a trusted person so I can be like, I’m so angry and they know that this is how I am, right?

And they’re, they coach me on like, they, they talk me down off the ledge before I make a decision. But this last, this last week, actually, I didn’t do it because my person was, she was on vacation and I was like, I’m not gonna bother her.

Carolyn: You didn’t have a backup. You didn’t have a backup

Kristin: I did not have a backup. There was a flaw. There was a flaw

Carolyn: Oh.

Kristin: in my system.

I had no backup, and I went directly to the staff to try and fix the problem, and my, I wasn’t angry, but I was overly cold. Like, I tried to remove all of the emotion, so then I just came across as, A jerk, because it was like trying to be like factual and it blew up in my face. It caused an issue that was much bigger than it was supposed to be.

And I’m like, this is why you have to trust. You have to rely on the system. You have to fall back onto it.

Carolyn: So you are you holding triads for your backup person?

Kristin: I know. Well, I ended up going to the team and I was like, I messed up. And they’re like, so there’s like five of us that you could have called or talked to. And I’m like, yes, that’s, that’s true.

Carolyn: So what’s it, what did you learn out of that? Then what are you going to do differently next time?

Kristin: I think for me, the next time is that I’ve got an entire team and it doesn’t just have to be one person. And that’s probably also overwhelming for just one person to have to deal with and be like, what are, what are you talking about versus bringing it to an entire group?

And then not only helping me talk, talk out down out of it, but also to help me problem solve why this issue is even coming up in the first 

Carolyn: right, right.

Kristin: back to relationships.

Carolyn: yeah, it’s the glue that holds everything together.

Kristin: Yep.

Carolyn: Okay, so second question. What is a practice or ritual that you rely on to keep you regulated or to bring you back into a regulated state?

Kristin: Well, I would say there’s a couple of things. One of them is I cook daily every night and people are like, well, aren’t you tired? Yes, I’m tired, but I do it because it takes me out of my head and puts me back into something experiential. Like I’m feeling this, I’m sensing it. It’s something strong. That just helps me come down.

But during the day, I actually am one of these people who carries the roller balls

full of essential oils

and just, I mean, you do trauma informed work. So engaging the senses brings you into the present moment. And if I’m feeling. Like I’m going too fast, like I’m feeling overwhelmed. I pull it out, I sniff it, nobody even knows.

Usually I do it, you can’t even see it if I’m talking to somebody on a camera. And I do it, it helps me just remember, I’m here right now.

Carolyn: Do you know what I love about this question? I think, I don’t think I’ve had the same question. Maybe once or twice I’ve heard the same answer, but I’ve never heard anybody share that. And it is, it’s all about getting into that body and that body awareness to get you into the moment. 

Now last question is around more around connecting with people around us and something bigger than ourselves.

So I’m going to ask you to share a song or a genre of music that just makes you feel connected to something bigger than yourself.

Kristin: You’re gonna think it’s funny, but I really, grunge music is something that I used to, and I don’t know if it’s like that darker emotional side of things that makes me feel more connected to people. But. Yeah. I don’t know. There’s something in dark emotion that makes me feel alive. That’s probably from being a therapist.

It’s probably

Carolyn: Well, and I think too, I mean, as somebody who grew up you know, I was in university when grunge came on the scene. kind of tapped into like this whole other, as you said, darker emotion that really wasn’t mainstream before. So I think it had a really important place in music history. So now is there, grunge.

Kristin: grunge in general.

Carolyn: All right. Sounds good. Sounds good.

Kristin: Yeah.

Carolyn: So Chrissy, if there’s anybody listening and they’re like, wow, I want to reach out and learn more about vibe or all that you do, where could they find you?

Kristin: Yeah. I am. Chrissy speaks. com. You can contact me through my website. It is my speaking website, but I do consulting coaching. You can contact me through there.

Carolyn: All right. And it is Chrissy with a K.

Kristin: Yes. K R I S S Y. Speaks. com.

Carolyn: Very good. Well, thank you so much for coming on the show. I’m really glad that our paths have crossed and who knows, maybe we’ll bump into each other sometime in real life.

Kristin: Yes, 

 

Carolyn: Yeah. Thanks for coming on the show again.