Foster a Better Company Culture with Values and the Neuro Change Method with Lindsay Harle-Kadatz


In this episode of Evolve: A New Era of Leadership, I‘m joined by Lindsay Harle-Kadatz, a speaker and business consultant who specializes in team behavior via culture and brand alignment. Our conversation explores the power of values in guiding leadership decisions, enhancing team dynamics, and ultimately, contributing to personal and corporate growth.

Lindsay Harle-Kadatz

Lindsay focuses on the impact of personal and corporate values on team behavior. A Neuro-Change Method™️ Master Practitioner, behaviour specialist, and listening facilitator, she uses a different lens for connecting leaders and teams to their values, their values to their behaviour, and their behaviour to actions that matter for optimal business performance and results.


🔑 Key Themes & Takeaways:

  • The Power of Values: Lindsay emphasizes the importance of understanding not just an organization’s stated values, but the underlying personal values that drive individuals’ behaviors and decision-making processes. 💫

  • Fostering Curiosity and Connection: By encouraging leaders to explore and share their personal values with their teams, Lindsay’s approach promotes curiosity, empathy, and deeper connections within the workplace. 🔗

  • Aligning Values and Culture: Through exercises and open dialogues, Lindsay guides teams in aligning their personal values with the organization’s defined values, creating a cohesive and authentic workplace culture. 🌿

  • The Neuroscience of Team Dynamics: Lindsay introduces the concept of viewing teams as neural circuits, where each individual’s behaviors and beliefs contribute to the overall team dynamic, providing a unique perspective on understanding and optimizing team performance. 🧠

  • Self-Awareness and Autonomy: Lindsay highlights the importance of self-awareness and autonomy as key factors in empowering individuals to contribute meaningfully to their teams while staying true to their personal values and motivations. 🪞

We talk about:

  • 00:00 Intro
  • 03:38 What inspired Karin to get into leadership development
  • 05:45 What has changed for her regarding dealing with conflict in the workplace
  • 08:34 About her writing partner
  • 11:47 Why leaders need to buy this book right now
  • 16:28 What if we can’t get one of the four C’s
  • 21:51 Advice people would give their former self if faced with the same conflict they have faced before
  • 22:33 The feedback she is getting from early readers or people who have gone through her workshop and been exposed to these tools
  • 28:31 How this book works with my book and navigating conflict while also navigating trauma informed leadership
  • 33:33 Generational differences in perspectives on workplace conflict and how to deal with it
  • 35:58 How long it takes to move through the discomfort and recognize when that discomfort or awkwardness is ok
  • 37:36 Are there differences in how to handle smaller conflicts versus ones that have inflated
  • 42:22 How to preorder the book
  • 44:23 Rapid fire questions

🌈 Closing Thoughts:

This values-based episode with Lindsay Harle-Kadatz offers a fresh and insightful approach to understanding team dynamics, conflict resolution, and leadership development. By emphasizing the intersection of personal values, organizational culture, and neuroscience, Lindsay provides a helpful framework for leaders to create more authentic, connected, and high-performing teams.

We encourage you to reflect on your own personal values and how they align with your workplace culture

#ValuesDrivenLeadership #TeamDynamics #CultureAlignment #PersonalGrowth #OrganizationalDevelopment

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Carolyn: Welcome to Evolve a New Era of Leadership. I’m Carolyn Swora, your host, and today my guest is Lindsay Harle-Kadatz. 

Lindsay calls herself a values vixen. She is a speaker in business consultants, and she specializes in team behavior via culture and brand alignment. You’re going to hear us talk about The approach that she takes with leaders who really are focused on having a positive impact on their people.

And for her, that starts with values. She calls it the tasty mental prune juice that gives leaders better brain flow for guiding, connecting, and leading their teams to greatness. Now, I’m also going to ask Lindsay about her neuro change method master practitioner work as well. So I think there’s going to be lots of great stuff in this conversation that will help you out in your own leadership journey.

Welcome, welcome to evolve everybody. And today is a Canadian special. I’m coming to you from just outside of Toronto. I think y’all know that. And today’s guest is coming to us from the West side of Canada. Lindsay Harle Kadatz, welcome to the show.

Lindsay: Yay! Welcome, welcome me! No,

Carolyn: Yeah, 

Lindsay: thank you for welcoming me!

Carolyn: this is what happens when you have a fellow podcaster on, you know, you forget what role we’re in.

Lindsay: Right, no, thank you so much for having me, and huzzah for fellow Canadians!

Carolyn: Yeah. Yeah. So we are going to have an awesome conversation today about leadership, about values. I know when we first met that was something that we connected on and you also are something called a neuro change method practitioner. So I’d love to dig into that today as well. And I am going to disclose, we are recording this during eclipse day.

So who knows what’s going to happen because the actual full eclipse is going to happen while we’re recording.

Lindsay: Yep.

Carolyn: So, I don’t know, maybe this will be like an extra special episode. Who knows?

Lindsay: Who knows what’s going to come through, what we’re going to feel from this eclipse that’s being called to sea in a moment.

Carolyn: Yeah. So, so Lindsay, you are a speaker, a business consultant. I know that you’re really you specialize in team behavior. What, can you just tell us a little bit about the basis for your work? 

Like what’s your special secret sauce or special approach around team behavior?

Lindsay: Yeah, I mean, so why I am passionate about teams and leaders particularly young leaders is from my own journey out of corporate Calgary into my own business. And that’s because I had a leader who saw me during one of the darkest times of my life, and she didn’t see me as a bum in a seat. She saw me as a full human.

And she listened and she held me accountable to getting the support and the help that I needed to be able to choose my own life, to stay alive. So that’s the power that I know that can come from a leader who leads a team of people who care for one another.

Carolyn: Right. I just, can I just say I just had a little giggle when you said corporate Calgary just cause it was like, it just sounded so natural and it was like, it’s this own continent of itself of corporate world.

Lindsay: and it’s not a bad thing, and I’m going to make sure that is very clear. It’s not a bad thing. It wasn’t for me, but I am passionate about helping people who it is for, so that they do have the tools to be able to go back should they need to take a leave, should they want to rework how business is done in their own corporate element.

Carolyn: Right. And I think it’s fair to say too, like the corporate, like corporations as a system aren’t, well, I think they’re kind of broken right now. 

And I hope where our conversation goes is how can us, we, as people, leaders in these corporations find a better balance so that it’s not the system that’s pulling us out of our integrity or causing us to feel burnt out.

All of those things. sort of things. Yeah.

Lindsay: And that right there really stems into the juiciness of what I found most of my work on all of my work on, and that’s values,

Carolyn: Hmm.

Boop, boop. Values. Yep.

Lindsay: right? And they’re not these fluffy marketing statements that so many of us. Are first introduced to values as I was, and I can regurgitate some of the values that I had to learn when I was in more of a corporate setting, don’t know what they look like in action.

So when I ended up having to step out of the corporate world and do my own inner work, I started to understand what values were and how powerful they were. For the person, and that’s because ultimately our values are our underlying beliefs upon which we take aligned action.

Carolyn: Right.

Lindsay: then I started my own business started in copywriting, evolved into branding.

However, in brand, you’re helping. A company articulate what its DNA is, and that includes the vision and mission. But for me, it was those values because all I kept hearing were these very generic values over and over again. And finally, I just. nurturingly challenged one of my clients and said, what does this mean?

I have heard this value before. I have heard it described exactly as you said before. And if we were to take your name away, I wouldn’t know whose value this, whose actual value this is.

Carolyn: I’ve had the exact same experience. In fact, I wrote them, I put them into my last book. Can I share what those five

Lindsay: Please. Yes, I bet you. They’re the ones that I’ve heard.

Carolyn: That’s what I want to hear. And this is not a shot. Like, I’m not saying we shouldn’t have these values. But to your point, they can mean different things for different organizations.

And as they should actually, because every organization is going to be different. So accountability, always the number one teamwork, collaboration, some sort of form of that integrity Oh, yeah, a little smile there. So there, there’s usually one about integrity and something about change, adaptability or innovation. Yes, that’s right. Right. Or excellence, quality. That’s a, that

Lindsay: quality, customer service and with me, it’s a lot because I supported a number of construction companies, safety. Well, that’s very different. Now, why I got that little smirk is because of that value, integrity.

And. The fact is, and I’ll say this is that when I first started my own writing company, I said, what values work for a company?

Oh, integrity. I’ll write that down. That’s not because I don’t have integrity, but I was like, that sounds It sounds good. Yep.

Now, someone then challenged me on that and it changed my whole view. And integrity is not a value because here’s the thing. If we’re listing a number of here’s our values. I would hope that integrity is in behind every single one of them so that you as an organization are in integrity with who you are purporting to be via your values.

Carolyn: Yep.

Lindsay: Integrity is not a value. Integrity is your alignment. Of your

Carolyn: those values. Yeah. Love it. So, sorry, I pulled this off a little there, but I think it’s important. It’s helpful to know that like, those words are really fundamental. And so if you’re sitting there thinking, yes, we got values at our organization, that’s great. And you’re going to teach us how to make them even more meaningful.

Yeah. Yep. Yep.

Lindsay: a set of corporate values, our company is made of individual people, our team Is made of individual people and each and every single one of us has our own personal values, whether or not we’ve taken the time to understand what they are and what they look like in action. That’s a different story, but we all have them. So we’re all showing up to work with our own values. And often what happens in teams is that it’s not necessarily that we’re not getting along or that we don’t understand one another is that we just aren’t understanding how we’re interpreting values. What personal values of ours we’re bringing to the table and how those personal values are actually influencing how we’re interpreting the corporate values.

Carolyn: Do we need to have a direct alignment? Like, what if I have a value that isn’t accountability or excellence or any of those five that we just mentioned? And I’m sure that happens a lot. So what do we do with that?

Lindsay: Well, it’s not necessarily about, Oh my goodness, I absolutely have to have the same values as my company.

That’s impossible. And this is why it’s so important that companies really get clear on, this is our value. This is what it, what we believe it to be for us. And this is what it looks like in action.

And it’s that definition part. So not necessarily the word, but the definition in action. That is so important that we start to understand and connect with, because we can then see, do I align with this company and how they act, how they make decisions, how these values influence the larger culture of the organization? And that, so it’s not, oh my gosh, I have to have the exact same values of everyone. It’s what are these values doing for the culture of the organization? And am I in alignment with the overall culture of the organization

Carolyn: Based on what those

Lindsay: based on what those values are? And when I’m working in this company and I’m faced with making a decision. It’s looking at these corporate values and understanding what decision makes the sense based on this definition within this corporate organization.

What can also happen because we’re bringing our own personal values in and is that we start to understand a little bit more of Something happens and we feel very reactive.

 We’re a little, I don’t like the word triggered, but we feel very hooked, reactive. We feel an emotion in our body and we, our defensives start to go up. That has nothing to do with what just happened. That has everything to do with your own personal values and that they’ve been then rubbed up against.

Carolyn: Right. I use that word too. A values rub.

Lindsay: yes. Yeah. Because that’s exactly what it is. And that’s a beautiful opportunity for the individual to pause and say, is this mine or is this what happened? And it’s usually, oh, this is mine. And then you get to go, why? And then you can step out of that emotion, that reaction and realize, okay, this is my own personal value here.

Okay. So how do I move forward now in a way that’s still in alignment with me as a human being, still as part of a team, and we’re operating as a team because we’re part of a team in a collective who has specific goals and targets that we need to meet. How do we do that together?


So Lindsey. Let’s get, can we get sort of like specific here?

I’m going to give you two of my values and how do you help leaders work with those? Like, so I have two values of grace and humility,

Lindsay: Mhm.

Carolyn: which by the way, I sort of changed them last year when I realized I kind of thought there was something that I wanted to evolve with those values. So grace and humility.

How, like, like when people come to you to do work, what challenge might I be facing? How could you help me with those values to help me understand them and how I operate as a leader?

Lindsay: Mhm. Mhm. So it’s not a, here’s a quick, here you go, now we’re done, but it’s really, so an example, I work with I’m working with a new leadership team.

Carolyn: Okay.

Lindsay: And what we’re doing is we’re doing a few exercises. The first of let’s talk about your personal values, because I don’t believe that we as leaders have any right to spout, Oh, these are our values.

This is how we have to operate. Blah, blah, blah. If we haven’t done our own work and understanding our own values, what are our personal values? What am I bringing as a leader into my role? That’s personal because business is still personal

because it’s human to human connection.

Carolyn: good business is personal. Yeah.

Lindsay: So it’s okay. So when you can start to pause, don’t even focus on the corporate values for a moment. Step out of the business. What is important to you when you’re in the middle of the night or right now during the day when it’s darkened out because of an eclipse 

and there’s this moment of, if I didn’t have to answer to anybody if nobody was asking me, if I wasn’t trying to keep up with the Joneses, what’s truly important to me

Carolyn: Yep.

Lindsay: and how do I express that? What are the actions in my own life? That I’m doing that represent this, that are

Carolyn: so when you do that with the leadership team, that impact. So with me, grace and humility is really about having the grace to, and the generosity to like to forgive myself and others to not expect perfection all the time. And the humility is that I’m not always going to have the right answer. So it’s sort of generalized.

So bringing that into the team behavior, and you said you’re working on it with a team. Why is it helpful for us to know about each other’s values on a team? 

Lindsay: Well, for instance, somebody else on your team may have that word humility, or may have that value grace. You may have completely different definitions.

Based on how you express them. Neither’s right. Neither’s wrong. They’re right for you. Why it’s important to start to understand and share this with each other is so you can start to understand, well, this individual is coming at it from this perspective and I’m coming at it from this perspective.

Okay. Well, we’re not wrong, but how do we connect and understand each other better? What are we all bringing into our conversations? Because like it or not. We don’t leave half of ourself at home. We bring our entire self. into conversations in the workplace. And so when you can start to have these conversations with each other on, this is my value and this is my definition of it based on X, Y, Z.

Oh, well, I have the same value, but this is my definition of it. And this is how I express it in my actions in X, Y, Z. You start to have a little bit more understanding and connection and empathy and just curiosity. With each other.

Carolyn: Yeah. I love how it fosters the curiosity

 so can you share an example of how this has helped a team that you’ve worked with?

Lindsay: So what happened is one of the clients I’m working with, they had one of their leaders send an email saying like an action or something of some team. This goes against our corporate values and the response was, okay, how tell? And they couldn’t answer that question. And it’s at that moment that we come in and then say, did, was it really against a corporate value or was it against one of my own personal values

Carolyn: Right.

Lindsay: and I’m justifying it, justifying my irkness via our corporate values, but I

Carolyn: it was really just a values rub.

Lindsay: It was just a values rub. And so that allows us to give those moments of pause of, was this actually against our corporate values?

 It allows you to step out and diffuse yourself and understand, Okay, hey, this actually wasn’t against our corporate values. It’s not how I would have done something. And so what that then allows us to do is once we can start to understand our own personal value and how it’s playing out in our interactions with each other, in how say we’re having a conversation with one of our team members and they say something and we get really frustrated and irritated and we have to pause and say, Is it them that’s being like them, or is there something deeper in me that what they’re saying isn’t how I would do it because of this value of mine.

And this is a moment for me as a leader to pause and just get curious and ask questions and help them explore their own thoughts.

Carolyn: Yeah. Like I’m hearing anchor values are anchors. And when we take the time to share that with the depth that you’re talking about with each other on the team, it fosters it fosters a curiosity, a sense of inquiry within each other, which is going to allow us to navigate through conflict or differences of opinion with a little bit more grace.

Lindsay: Exactly. Right.

Carolyn: Yeah.

Lindsay: and what it does because of the definition I have of it’s our underlying beliefs. Well, then is it actually a beliefs misalignment

And people develop beliefs based on their experiences.

Carolyn: right.

Lindsay: And who are we to challenge that unless it’s intentionally harming someone? And that’s a whole other conversation, but I’m assuming people of good intent,

which is right or wrong.

I don’t know. Most leaders are operating with good intent. They just don’t know how to separate their personal, emotional reactions Because they haven’t had that ability to pause and do that deeper inner work of this is mine and I and how someone else is doing it may not be how I’m doing how I would have done it when I was in that role.

As we know, a lot of leaders are promoted because they were experts in their role.

Carolyn: right.

Lindsay: So helping leaders start to dig into who they are. What are their beliefs? How can they use these to not hinder connection with their people, but actually augment it? That allows us then to start have better, have, to start having better conversations.

Carolyn: Right.

Lindsay: And then we can start to look at the corporate values. Because the corporate values aren’t personal values. They are these, it’s an overarching way of being. It’s how we decide what are our priorities. It’s how we decide when we’re faced with really hard decisions, what decision is right for this company based on our defined values.

And when we can start to get alignment in, okay. So, so one thing I do with this leadership team is we put them all together and we say, Hey, these are the defined values that we have. What do these mean to each and every single one of you?

Because it could mean something different, even with that definition. That can make something seem very different.

Carolyn: Right.

Lindsay: And it allows them, everybody to start looking at, well, where are the discrepancies? More importantly, where is the through themes? Where are we all in agreement? Because it’s that agreement then that we can then take that into our teams and do the same exercise with our team members.

Well, what does this mean for you? How then do we start to express this as a team? So that team leaders are not so siloed from one another, but they’re operating in the same way that makes sense for the business.

Carolyn: Wow. And I’m guessing that when if you look at, if you kind of look at some patterns that have developed on teams where there have been common not misinterpretations, but differences in opinion on certain topics, I’m going to guess what comes back underneath that, where that disruption is because of a values rub or some assumptions around values.

Lindsay: Yeah. Yeah. And it’s that. Well, and it is that understanding that my experience is not the same as their experience.

Carolyn: Yeah.

Lindsay: So why am I expecting them, or why are they expecting me, to have the same reactions, to have the same thoughts, to have the same actions, when we’ve had completely different experiences up till now?

Carolyn: So at the beginning of our conversation, you said that there was a leader that you had that really encouraged you to, Get to know yourself better. And there’s a piece in here that I want to sort of tie together. So you were in a corporate job you left for, it sounds like a short period of time and then decided not to go back in.

How did values, and we’re not saying that’s the path everybody needs to take, but , how did that whole experience inspire you to do this work?

Lindsay: I mean, it was very transformative that time of my life as I had grown up with working in corporate being modeled for me. So I very clearly thought this is what’s right for me. I’m going to be out of university. I’ve got to wear the heels and the power suit. Corporate is my world. That’s where I’m going.

Cause that’s all I ever knew.

Carolyn: Right.

Lindsay: However, why I left was because I was In that, I was a shell of myself because I was trying to conform to a way of being that wasn’t actually me.

, and so, depression, anxiety, I was finally able to start dealing with a like a decade long purging disorder, all of that. And I very fortunately, and I completely recognize how privileged I am in the access I was able to get very quickly because of the EAP program, because of my own family doctor who believed me and kept an eye on me. And it was through a lot of that work and a lot of the therapy. A lot of the therapy where I had to start doing some values, like, cause they would ask, well, what are your, I don’t know what my values are.

And so I kind of just regurgitated what my parents values were and they’re not bad values.

Carolyn: Right. But they’re not 

Lindsay: but they were not me. And one that became very clear. Was independence

so my personal five core values are creativity, kindness, significance, independence, and humor. And none of them were being met in the current life I was trying to achieve.

Carolyn: Hence the anxiety and other things. And so, what an important discovery to make for yourself.

Lindsay: It was huge. And again I’m, there was a lot of privilege along the way, a lot of belief in me. And I’m very, like, it doesn’t hurt in Canada that I am a tall, fairly slender, white female.

Carolyn: Yep.

Lindsay: I am the picture that you see on those types of things, eating disorder central. This is what it looks like.

Well, no, so I had a lot of access

Carolyn: Yep.

Lindsay: and that’s not right that not everybody does, but

Carolyn: Yeah.

Lindsay: don’t think we’re going to solve that on this,

Carolyn: No, we won’t solve that on this on this day 

Lindsay: yeah, unfortunately. But that was a very transformative thing. moment for me. And when I started to connect that into helping my clients realize, because I, like copywriting, I’m great at it.

I don’t love it. And there are people who are great at it and love it. What I always loved was asking questions of my clients and see them go, Oh my God, we have work to do on who we are.

Money out the window, trying to achieve something when we don’t know who we are.

And so it’s pause the marketing campaigns, pause the new website, pause that and go and do this actual work of getting clear on who you are as a company.

Carolyn: Right.

Lindsay: And it’s not one person at the table. It’s not just the business owner. It’s well, what is true for everybody in your business? So it’s bringing people together and having those conversations.

And that’s when you start to understand, okay, well, why are people here? What is the actual culture? We say, these are our values. Do people believe them or are they laughing at them behind their backs? Cause that often happens. It’s, Oh yeah, people first donkey. And it comes to that moment of our employees will always be our strongest marketers,

Carolyn: Yep.

Lindsay: our strongest advocates or our worst enemies.

Make them your strongest advocates

Carolyn: Yep. Absolutely.

Lindsay: And you do that by listening to them and understanding. Okay. Well, what does make us great? What’s not working and no, you don’t have to take everybody’s opinion. Of course not. But it start listening to what are the common commonalities. Time and time again,

Carolyn: Yep.

Lindsay: and so one thing we actually haven’t talked on, tapped on, chatted about,

Carolyn: into it.

Lindsay: we’ll get there.

And this comes from a lot of the neural change work that I do is because I look at a team as a neural circuit.

Carolyn: Yeah. So let’s get into that.

 So, when you look at the team as a neural circuit, first of all, let’s just define what a neural circuit is.

Lindsay: So it’s basically the brain patterns that you have in your head that reinforce habits. That’s a very easy way of saying it. So our beliefs are a neural circuit, which means we can rewire our beliefs. Not easy. But we can do it and so a lot of times people are like, Oh, so and so is such a toxic person.

No, they are not. That person is not a toxic person. Their behavior is absolutely a toxic behavior. So if you’re removing that person from that team and you’re not actually addressing the behavior that was, The toxic piece, that behavior will come back

Carolyn: Right. Hence the neural 

Lindsay: hence the neural circuit because a neural circuit is really just a bunch of neurons that come together that form your habits.

Carolyn: Right.

Lindsay: Very low level. We’re not in the nitty gritty here. And why that matters is because every single neuron in that neural circuit

has a purpose. It is there for a very specific reason.

Carolyn: Okay.

Lindsay: And so we need to start to understand, well, if we take one of those neurons out, how does that impact the circuit?

If we add another neuron in, how does that impact the circuit? And so you’re constantly having to readjust and understand, connect and understand what are the right behaviors for this team based on our values as defined by the company, based on the individuals who are on our team, what is that right behavior?

Done the right way that allows us to achieve the optimal results that we’re looking to achieve.

And so it’s really looking at each other and understanding, well, so and so adds this real greatness to our team, and that’s why they’re part of this. This is their piece. I’m not going to step on their toes because this is their piece.

Carolyn: Right.

Lindsay: This is how I work with them to support them in their piece. And they work with me to support me in my piece. And I often talk about, you know, for instance, sales, salespeople and operations. I have never met a salesperson who loves entering data into the CRM. They have yet

Carolyn: for that. Don’t have time. They’re not selling.

Lindsay: They’re outselling, right? And so, because every time they have to slow down and enter, that’s time away from them being able to go and close a sale or get more sales or have more conversations that then lead to sales.

However, when they’re putting that information into a CRM database, they are supporting the people in their company who actually have to deliver upon the services the salesperson has promised. So they have the information. If that information is not there, then that poor team member is like, I don’t know what, like how, I don’t know.

What’s the expectation? How do I do this? What?

Carolyn: So is this where the circuit comes in, like recognizing that you’re part of a circuit and there are certain contributions that are needed to make this circuit

Lindsay: Exactly. Yeah. And so it gives more context as to why you are doing something because you are, even if you are a lone salesperson, you are part of a larger organization.

Carolyn: Right. Right.

Lindsay: So if you’re not actually supporting the people who support you and your client. You’re hindering yourself as a salesperson. You’re breaking trust between you and that client.

So good luck on getting more sales or growing your business within their own company. And you’re harming the culture that you have within the business. And so the operations people will be less likely to prioritize your clients.

Carolyn: Right.

Lindsay: So there is a bit of selfishness in it, but it makes sense. Well, if I do this, then they can do this.

And then this can happen. And then this can happen. And I may actually grow within that company with, grow within that client company. And they may become one of my best sellers. 

Carolyn: Right? Yeah. So

can you come back to the beliefs? So I just want to get a little bit more depth there. So beliefs underpin the values or like our drive the values.

 And so as a neuro change method practitioner, what do you do with beliefs or like, why is it important to surface those?

Lindsay: a number of companies I work with looked at their values and they were, they no longer made sense.

These actually aren’t our values. These were our values pre COVID, but we’re going through something and we are changing.

Carolyn: Okay.

Lindsay: Well, that’s great. Wonderful. Let’s do some deep dive. Let’s really uncover what are the real values. Okay, and so you uncover these real values of your organization, but you simply can’t say, K team, these are the new corporate values. Get on board! the people in your team Are already operating with beliefs about the company with beliefs about the old values with a belief system that they’ve already been operating on.

Carolyn: right,

Lindsay: So, rather than just throwing these values at them, being like, get on board or out, right? It’s, you have to nudge it forward and say, well, what beliefs are my people operating with that are in support of these values? Or that are against these values, neither right nor wrong, but it goes to that individual is getting clarity.

And so say like a value is perform above performance above everything else. I don’t know. That’s not like for me, not a great value for some companies that

Carolyn: Well, let’s see collaboration. That’s a pretty common value. Yeah.

Lindsay: collaboration. So perhaps the team, like perhaps the company prior wasn’t working very collaboratively together.

Carolyn: Yeah.

Lindsay: And they realize, Oh, well, we do value collaboration actually. But we have a few people here who are very self focused. Okay, well, let’s talk to them and get an understand why, what is that about?

Is, where did that belief come from? Is it a survival mode? Is it because they themselves are just lone wolves?

What belief do they have that may actually go like, that may make it harder for them to. work within a collaborative value.

Carolyn: Okay. And so you unpack that as a group or individually, how does that work?

Lindsay: That’s more one on one with leader. Like you can’t say, okay, team, share all your trauma, share your entire experience here. Right. It is more, okay. Understanding. What is your motivator?

Because our personal values at the end of the day, which are those underlying beliefs upon which we take action, is our intrinsic motivator.

And so if I’m a leader who’s like, we are operating with collaboration, period, and I put that on my people, and one of those people is like, I’m not a collaborative individual. I’m very much like, put me in a room, give me work and I’m good to go. then you and that individual are going to have tensions.

May not drop, it may drop, but you may look at them very poorly and give them a poor performance review because of that.

Get into that understanding as to, well, why? What is, what’s their experience as they grew up? Were they on another team that had collaboration as a value, but really everybody was so individual and so they just think collaboration is a joke because they never saw it actually expressed. Okay. And then you can hear that and they can share their stories, their experiences, and you can learn, okay, well, here’s what I’m going to have to do to support this person and help them learn almost what real, what collaboration via our definition is. And I can give them those tools and I can give them that conversation and I can ask them, well, what do you need?

What do you, dear Joe, dear Sally dear Tessa, I don’t know names what do you as an individual need to understand how this value looks in your role? Let them define that. Yeah.

Carolyn: circular approach to this is it’s not about pushing anything down. It’s about engaging and dialoguing. 

what suggestions or steps do you have for people listening right now? What are maybe like three things they could do based on what you’ve shared with us today?

Lindsay: Well, before it’s really understand their self determination theory. Humans have this in us. And that is fairly simple in that. We crave autonomy. We want as individuals, autonomy, we want competency. So we want to know what we can master. Where is our growth? How do we do it? How do we take ownership of it?

This is where we can start to hold ourselves accountable within the autonomy and the competency. And then there’s that third piece of relatedness,

Connected to a purpose greater than them.

Carolyn: Right. Gotcha. 

Lindsay: It’s really starting to gain clarity on

Carolyn: competencies?

Lindsay: is this team’s purpose? Again, within the context of the organization, because we’re talking about work here and the corporate world. And so it’s what does this team have as a connection? What is our connectedness? What is our greater purpose? And how does this tie into the larger organization’s greater purpose, goals, values, vision? Okay. Now, who on this team, what autonomy did they need to have? Which means I need to start to trust them, but I also need to understand where this is for them.

So I have to have these conversations with them. And that then comes down to their competency based on their autonomy. What is it that they’re wanting to do? How are they contributing? What is their responsibilities as defined by their role description? And then what training do they need? And is that self?

Awareness piece, because sometimes it’s as simple as that. Oh, well, just get to know yourself a little bit better. And then you can start to identify, this is why I’m doing this key action. This is how it’s impacting my autonomy, which builds my trust within my leader. We want to be trusted. We don’t want to be micromanaged.

And if a leader is micromanaging, it’s because they haven’t done their own self awareness nine times out of 10.

Carolyn: Absolutely.

Lindsay: So it’s start to ask yourself, who do I not trust on my team? And why? And is that about me? Or is that about them?

Carolyn: Right.

Lindsay: Because if it’s about me, then it’s really, well, even if it’s about them, there could be a values, personal values conflict.

Or even a, we may not actually be interpreting the corporate values the same way.

Carolyn: Right.

Lindsay: And so how do we have those conversations?

Carolyn: Right.

Lindsay: Are we having those conversations?

Carolyn: Yeah.

Lindsay: And how do I, as a leader, support my people to succeed in their role?

Because that’s essentially what a leader is. It’s not, I’m telling you what to do. It’s, this is what we are assigned

To achieve as a team by higher leadership. Let’s say, how do we do that?

Carolyn: Right.

Lindsay: How do you, what do you need? To be able to be responsible and accountable to your own actions within the role that you have and the piece that you are on this team so that everyone can start to do that.

And it’s just getting really clear with your people on that and digging into, okay, well, in order for people to thrive, we need to understand our own autonomy. We need to be an autonomous creature. 

Carolyn: Yep. 

Lindsay: We need to have our own competency and we need to know that we’re starting to grow and master our skills.

Carolyn: Right.

Lindsay: And then we also need to know what this all ties into as a bigger piece. And how am I contributing? Because people care about the things that they are. involved in. And so if we’re not helped, and when people help to contribute, and when people help to create, people care about that.

Carolyn: Right. That, well, the Y is there. It’s yeah. They can connect with that. Oh, Lindsay, it’s already time to wrap up and go like into the next piece. It’s just, time flies by 

what’s, one piece or one insight you could share with the leaders listening and maybe not one insight cause you’ve just shared a bunch of insights.

What’s one piece of advice 

Lindsay: Learn how to listen

Carolyn: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Lindsay: without judgment

Carolyn: Yeah.

Lindsay: reaction. And if you do react, that’s okay. And take that moment. And go and dissect it later to understand why did I react. Learn how to listen.

Carolyn: Beautiful. 

Lindsay, where could the listeners find you? Well, we know it’s going to be in corporate Calgary, but where else could they find you online?

Lindsay: Yes, online you can find me at my website, which is BRPConsulting. ca. Because businesses are people too.

Carolyn: Oh, nice.

Lindsay: or you can find me on LinkedIn Lindsay Harle Kadass.

Carolyn: Nice. We’ll make sure that those links are in the show notes. And before we conclude things, how do you feel about the three evolved questions that I share at the end of every interview? Are you game?

Lindsay: I’m game.

Carolyn: All right. 

Well, the first one ties in definitely to what we were just talking about there, which is self awareness.

And I’m going to invite you to share an insight about yourself, something where your, self awareness went from here to like here, it was like, whoa, you really learned something that you didn’t know about yourself.

Lindsay: many tales there. But honest to goodness, I would say. It really was back in 2011 with that, with when I was given that opportunity to start understanding my own values, to understand I’m not in the right workplace and that’s not bad, but it’s not me

and I no longer want to be this shell.

Carolyn: So basically our entire conversation has been around question number one.

Lindsay: Exactly. Yeah. So, so, I mean, and what I really do want to make clear is we do not have to wait. Until we have to, until we have to, until we go through trauma, whether it’s big T or little T

Carolyn: Yeah.

Lindsay: start to understand what our own personal values are. We shouldn’t have to. Most people do. So if, the leader’s listening, take anything away and they haven’t had that opportunity to really sit with themselves,

Carolyn: Yeah.

Lindsay: do this, do that, do

  1. It 

Carolyn: It

it makes a difference. And if you think you’re fine without it, you’re probably fooling yourselves.

Second question. What is a practice or a ritual that you really depend on to help keep you regulated or bring you more into presence?

Lindsay: So back to values. what I’ve done for myself and I’ve, and I recommend, and I recommended it to a few of my clients as well, is have your list of your own core values

Carolyn: Okay. 

Lindsay: How can I get back into this value in 10 minutes in 30 minutes, in 60 plus. Because there are times when, and I track my values every day. Have I done values based behavior? And on those days when I really haven’t, I feel so I’m uncomfortable,

Carolyn: Or tired maybe, like heavy. 

Lindsay: exhausted, just not like something’s not right within me. And so creativity being my number one, I have a list of like, even things like just go and draw for five minutes and that’s small.

So they don’t have to be these huge actions of, Oh, well, I can’t today. I’ve got, I can’t do my values today. Right? And 

Carolyn: I’ve got an all day meeting.

Lindsay: an all day meeting. Okay. I get that. I get that. Other things are pulling your attention. But when you have a list of, okay, which of my values have I not been living a lot of,

Carolyn: Right. 

Lindsay: some quick ways that I know that I express them that allow me to tap back into myself.

Carolyn: Yeah. Yeah. Beautiful. Thank you. 

And last but not least, what is a song or genre of music that helps you feel connected to something bigger than yourself?

Lindsay: I love this question so much. And I kept being like, Oh probably like musical theater or something. But then I had but my pause really was, I grew up in, I grew up with musical theater and choir and singing,

And there’s something so, Powerful to me about choral music

And when you all are just there in the moment, it sense like it sends chills.

I’ve, I’ve, I’ve had the beautiful opportunity of singing in the Wind Spear Center in, in, in Edmonton as originally I’m from there. And

Carolyn: Yep. It is.

Lindsay: just how Harmony’s come together and you just connect with the hearts. You’re there for the music.

Carolyn: Yeah.

Lindsay: And it’s it surrounds you, it engulfs you, everything

Carolyn: Is there a specific song that you remember singing or observing watching?

Lindsay: So there’s two one of them is be merciful unto me, Oh God. And just so stunning. And there was a soprano at the end of it. And just how the high notes that she would sing Alleluia

Carolyn: Wow.

Lindsay: every time. And then the other one was Crucifixus probably didn’t say that very well. And it was just, it was. shivers every time. And I remember again, I’m alto, but the soprano singing so beautifully, the alto supporting, and then the tenors and the bass, they were there. Beautifully there. And it was just these moments and you would, we would end. And there would be pure silence.

Carolyn: Yeah. And I mean, the orchestra, the choir, I mean, you know, we’ve talked about those four different elements of a choral I guess, experience and alto tenor what’s the saxophone? Alter tenor soprano and baritone. Which is a really well functioning team.

Lindsay: Yes. Oh, look at that. Yes. You’re absolutely right. Everybody has a very clear purpose and reason they’re there. And we know that to have that perfection almost, or not even perfection, but that emotion.

Carolyn: Yeah, or alignment, right? The alignment, just when it comes together and you’re all reading sort of this, you’re all reading like the, whatever clef it is, treble or bass, like, well, it’d be treble for altos and sopranos. But just how amazing it can all blend together. 

I just think it’s a beautiful analogy of what we all really seek and it takes practice, right?

It takes practice for a choir to find that alignment. And I mean, I’m pretty sure people don’t turn and yell at each other like, come on Altos, you suck. Maybe they do, but

Lindsay: I mean

Carolyn: guess for the

Lindsay: not during performance, But it’s it is it you’re absolutely right and everybody has to I never even thought of it that way and that’s such a beautiful because Yeah, come on, Altos, you haven’t learned your part. You’re not getting this. What do you need to do? How do you need to do it? And then even because that song was the Crucifixus specifically was in Latin.

Latin, I think? I don’t remember. It was a long

Carolyn: you’d have to learn like different

Lindsay: Yeah, and so it’s, You have to go and practice it and you have to make sure everybody understand how are you doing, but you still have to break it down your own way and you have your own breakdown of the words so that you can understand. Well, this is how I say this, which may be different than somebody else.

Right? And, but it all comes together for that very clear purpose

Carolyn: Yeah.

Lindsay: and it is that silence at the end.

Carolyn: Yep. Beautiful. Lindsay, it’s been a real pleasure having you on the show. Thanks for joining us from Calgary, Alberta, and I almost said Ontario. Whoa. That was like an Ontario slip. Wasn’t it Calgary, Alberta, Canada. Thanks so much for coming on the show. And I hope our listeners go and take a bit of time to reflect on and write down what your values are. Yeah, thanks for coming on, Lindsay.

Lindsay: Carolyn.


Carolyn: So I’ll be honest with you, there was a point in my leadership journey where I rolled my eyes at values. I’m not really too proud to say that but I remember the values that our organization had and there were pins and there was just a lot of work. Behind them. And I just thought, Oh, I mean, I remember rolling my eyes thinking, what, who cares?

We’ve got stuff to do. Why is this important? Well, here I am all these years later really endorsing the power, not only of organizational values, but also of your personal values. And again, this is another area where I really underestimated the power of connecting to your own values. And as you heard Lindsey, Lindsey share with us, you’re not going to get a hundred percent alignment.

That’s not the goal, but you need to understand what your values are so that when you get irritated and frustrated and annoyed, and Hey, that happens to all of us at work, you have an idea about what those anchors are that will give you pause to unpack and understand why you reacted the way that you did.

Being a leader and understanding and having that awareness between what you think, what you feel, and what you do is the best thing that you can do for the people that you work with because it means that you will respond mindfully instead of reacting and who knows what might be involved with that. But it’s usually not good anyway.

Thank you so much for tuning in. Let us know what you think of the episode by leaving a comment and you can always find me at carolynsuara. com. Thanks so much for tuning in. We’ll see you in our next show. 

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